Entrepreneur Intel

EI - Alexandra Santine
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Intro: [00:00:00] This is the unfiltered truth about entrepreneurship. Raw, no VS, no sugarcoating. Welcome to Entrepreneur Intel. I'm your host, Wes Matthews. Each episode, we'll learn from experienced founders and uncover the top 5 percent learnings that led to their success in all things personal, family, and business.

This show is sponsored by Stealth Consulting, delivering clear marketing strategies, ROI, and no surprises.

Wes: I'm super excited for today's guest, um, introducing her. She's a seasoned entrepreneur and founder who understands the critical importance of infrastructure across operations, finance, and people, which is awesome. Looking forward to dive into that. Uh, she has two decades of experience driving fortune 500 companies and early stage startups.

Uh, she's honed in a results driven approach as a trusted advisor. Uh, welcome co founder, fractional COO and CFO, Alexander Satine. [00:01:00] Welcome.

Alexandra: Thank you so much Wes for having me here today. I really appreciate it. I'm really excited for this opportunity and thank you for reaching out to me on LinkedIn. The power of connecting, definitely.

Wes: that's what, that's what it's all about. I'm super excited to talk to you because you, for me, you check a lot of boxes, but with your experience in two decades in Fortune 500 and then for you to go off on your own. Yeah, I'm really excited to dive into that. But before we get going, Cohort, you've grown it.

You have about a headcount of nine people now. You've been doing it now for about four years. What's one of the biggest lessons you've learned thus far?

Alexandra: Honestly, betting on yourself. Uh, I was a first time founder in my twenties and you went to, like you said, went to work for Fortune 500, went to work for other VC backed companies and family owned. And At the end of the day, it's about betting on yourself, uh, and not waiting for someone's approval and really valuing time.

Uh, time is the most valuable thing we have. And so how do we make [00:02:00] the most of it and bring purpose and give back, uh, whether that is through building a team or helping founders. So to me, Building your cohort was once again, betting on myself, uh, because no one will ever believe in you like you believe in yourself.

Wes: Yeah, that's great. Passion. Passion's everything. I totally agree with you. And, so I want to dive into two things with you. One, it's the two decades of experience, and you have a pretty awesome, impressive background with Fortune 500 companies. You branched out to your own, but you're originally from Venezuela.

When did you, and when you're in America now, when, when did you come over?

Alexandra: So I came when I was 20. I, I was pretty, um, lucky to have the opportunity to come and go to school in Chicago, did my undergrad in Chicago. And it was, My first stop in the US. I also in that period of time had a phenomenal, um, coincidence, if you want to call it or luck [00:03:00] that I got a chance to meet Kenneth Cole at one of his book signings, and he introduced me to the fashion world and he gave me my first internship. So I had no idea what an internship was. Uh, I had no idea how, what to do. I just literally arrived from Venezuela. So a lot of new things that I had to learn aside from the language, really, uh, getting it together. And so, yeah, I, I, that was my first dive really into the retail space, the fashion space, the manufacturing. And moving to New York. And that was my, how I fell in love with New York and went on to move to New York and 20 years later, uh, still in New York.

Wes: That's awesome. So like with the two decades of experience in fortune 500, has it mainly been in fashion? I know there's a little FinTech, but like, what's the core of your background?

Alexandra: it's really been, uh, retail, but more on the manufacturing operation side. That's really where I focus a lot of the time. [00:04:00] Uh, but having built my company at 25 really gave me an exposure to finance, to people, to. everything that goes into a business. So very early on in my career, even though I started in one area, it really broadened because when you build your own company, you're no longer have departments.

You are each department. You have to learn to wear each hat. And so that was really where my experience started to broaden. And then I went back, uh, after having my first business into another, uh, to a VC backed company.

Wes: Got it. Okay. So you're with a company, started your own company, went back and then you're with the, so you have all, you know, kind of a well rounded, uh, background. But like something that stands out to me, regardless if it's with the two decades or as an entrepreneur, it's the importance of infrastructure on, you know, you, you mentioned operations, finance, and people like at what point of your career, your [00:05:00] life, like that jumped out at you and how did you start diving in on those specific items?

Alexandra: So I sort of had a feeling when I had my own business that you, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, and also as an executive, you have to have a knowledge about those areas. But it wasn't until I went on to work for this VC backed company that I then was like, okay, I'm onto something. Like there's a lot of value.

To being able to speak to the three things together. And there's a lot of value to be able to apply that no matter what type of product it is. And that was really when I started taking advantage and really focusing on making that my story and making that my passion, that it's operations, finance, and people, and they go hand in hand.

Wes: So with doing that, right, so you have operations, finance, people, and are you working mainly now with entrepreneurial run companies? Are they VC backed? Are they enterprise? Because to me. And I'd love to get your feedback. Those are, they're very [00:06:00] different types of things, right? So my perspective is operations finance people mean very different things to those three different types of businesses.

Who, who do you focus on or are you kind of across the board?

Alexandra: we, we have two segments that we focus VC backed companies for sure. Uh, and self funded companies. So we do have, uh, early stage founders who have, Investor themselves or, um, gotten loans or, but not being VC backed. And then we do a lot of the VC backed businesses too. And we're industry agnostic in the midst of all of this.

Wes: So to me, like those are very two different segments, right? If you have a founder, that's putting it all on the line, not to discredit a VC backed company, but a founder with an idea and a vision and capital versus a VC backed company. You know, I'm 43, but I, I kinda through my business, I, you know, I'm in Detroit.

There was like a little tech bubble here. And a lot of these companies would pop up in Detroit and, you know, they're [00:07:00] catered lunches every day. There's ping pong tables, there's hot tubs. And like, I'm like, this is crazy. Right. But most of these companies were VC backed. They weren't founder led. So how do you, you know, when you're dealing with the entrepreneur, like how different is that when you're working with a VC backed company?

Cause I'm assuming it's like a hired gun or a hired CEO. Do

Alexandra: Yeah. It's definitely very different because you are, you're reporting back to the investor. So yes, you are the founder, but at the end of the day. Every quarter or every month, depending on who your investor is, you're having to report back to them and you're going to have to make sure that your milestones are met and you have a runway, right?

And an expectation. You have a runway of 18 months and the expectation is that you're going to hit certain milestones and not only are you going to hit those, but then you're going to go back out and fundraise. Very different than when you have your own business. And you're self funding it and you can decide what that timeline is.

And there's really no one that you're reporting to, [00:08:00] uh, really unless you took out a loan and obviously you have to pay it off. But aside from that, time is almost a little more under your control where in a VC, the timeline is, it's already been set for you.

Wes: you, do you find it? I mean, this is all situational,

right? But you know, as a founder, if there's options, right, you need to raise capital. I mean, do you see when people go out and get VC like that typically works out well, or do you say, Hey, like self funded first, try that route. Like, is there a preference on your end that you advise?

Alexandra: Yeah, I advise educate yourself, right? Understand what each of those are like. What is, what does it mean to be VC backed? What does it mean when you put your own funds? What does it mean getting loan factoring? Oh, there's, a beauty about, honestly, about doing business in the U. S. is that there's so many options, but yet I know it's hard sometimes to find the information, but if you educate yourself and understand what's the best option for you. Then [00:09:00] you will find what fits you because it's not only about the business type, but it's also what your personality can take. Some people, you know, are not meant to do VC back. Some people are not meant to do self funded. They don't have the risk. It's all about how much risk are you willing to put on table?

Like how, like what's your, yeah. Like it's all based on risk and what you're comfortable taking.

Wes: I feel there's a lot of misconceptions or there's just a lot of things out there, right? So like, what's a typical VC scenario when they hook up with an entrepreneur? I mean, are they, you know, we're, we're going to take 51 percent of your company. Like what's a normal deal out there that you see when VC and entrepreneurs come together?

Alexandra: And does you see that varies because it also varies on industry. It varies on, um, it's, it's, it's not like a one size fits all. It really, it varies on how much you're trying to raise, how much you've already put, if you already had Angel back in. So if your cap table already has Angel backing, what is [00:10:00] that, like, how do you go about now VC backing? It varies a lot, and it also varies now more than ever on industry, like CPG, uh, was at one point very backed by VCs. They're still backing it, but you've not seen that same rush, and now you're seeing the rush of AI. And even that is having its shift. So, so all of it is very much about really thinking through of how you're setting up the business from day one, everything goes into accountability.

Who are you going to take money from day one, everything from loans, from angel investors. How are you going to set up the business? Should it be an LLC? Should it be a C Corp? If you're going to have a subsidiary in the U S in another country. All those things you need to really think them through from day one, because they might seem like minimal at the moment, but, or it's fixable, but yes, as the business starts gaining momentum or attraction or whatever it is in growth, [00:11:00] all those decisions will come back and have it have some, yeah, we'll have an impact.

Wes: Yeah. I mean, you hear stories All the time.

right. Or within my circles and it sounded like a great thing at the time, but now, you know, two years later, they're stuck in this bad relationship. Yeah. How would you, I love what you say, like educate yourself, right? I think as an entrepreneur, like you just need experience, share feedback, you know, what's right for you.

Like what makes sense for me may not make sense for you, but how would you recommend for an entrepreneur to educate themselves? I mean, you know, some in my experience, no finance, well, some have no idea like how to even read a PNL. Um, so like where, where would you recommend an entrepreneur start? When they go through this

Alexandra: Yeah,

honestly, uh, that's been one of the things that I've learned the most from building my own company is understanding people's, I call it financial, like literacy or financial comfort. And so what I've really focused with the business is to [00:12:00] try to now add an educational component because my suggestion is, listen, just even if you Google, for instance, like what is EBITDA or what is a P& L or what is a balance You're fine. YouTube videos. Um, a lot of the systems like accounting firms, they have their own tutorial videos that they put on their own websites and their blogs. Um, get a good bookkeeper. I would, my biggest suggestion, uh, and I always say this to founders is your right hand should be your bookkeeper. Get a great bookkeeper that you can ask questions every month when you're closing your books and be like, why is this number like this?

Why did you put this? Don't be shy to ask. And if you get a good bookkeeper, They should be able to guide you enough that when you're ready to get our fractional CFO or an in house finance person, that that will then be the person you lean on. That that's always been my biggest suggestion, not having a bookkeeper is starting the [00:13:00] business in the wrong foot.

Yeah.

Wes: I think, you know, from my experience, when I started my first company, I looked at that as, Oh, I can't afford that person. But then I think as you grow, you're like, I don't think I cannot afford not to have that person. Right. Um, well, I love that you're a COO and a CFO because I think those things go hand in hand.

Right. So like from, from your perspective as a, as a fractional COO, you know, you're coming in to, to balance infrastructure across operations, finance, and, and Technology. Are you more focused on just getting that visionary in check or like, what's your relationship with visionary entrepreneurs or that VC?

I mean, are you coming in as a fractional COO for VC backed companies as well?

Alexandra: So what I try to do is apply both skills because I work with early stage startups. Anybody who's from pre revenue up to about to go into a series A, because I'm in that bracket, I can wear both hats because eventually you will need a COO. and a CFO. But at [00:14:00] that early stage, I can wear both hats and think through what is the processes?

What is the process flow? How are you, um, streamlining and how, for instance, how does it go from the sales lead to invoicing? I can think of all that. And what is the impact to that? When it comes to cash flow, forecasting, budgeting, they both tie together, especially early, early on. You want to be able to understand that. So if you can take that into accountability, the operation side and the finance side, I think you're covering a lot of the, the, any gaps that can happen.

Wes: With these early stage startups, are you using like any specific type of infrastructure? Is it your own? Is it just unique based on what they're doing and their needs? Or are you coming with some sort of playbook that just works in the startup world?

Alexandra: So I've been developing that playbook as I obviously, as I've been seeing more industries and seeing more type of founders and what kind of funding I've been fine tuning that. [00:15:00] But honestly, the first thing is a financial model. That's been my big one. And I think that's where I get a lot of resistance to because it can be intimidating.

It can, if you've never done anything around finance, a financial model, Can become very intimidating and it takes time. It takes time. You need to invest to understand how your business works, but it also makes the founders think about what is your revenue? Where's your revenue coming from? What is the cost to deliver that revenue? Um, what are your projections? And so. Financial model has been my big one because that way they can truly understand and own their business. And so if they have to go back, fundraise, if they have to talk to a bank, they're able to come with numbers, which is so essential.

Wes: In your experience, like, where do you find like these early stage startup founders? Like where do they meddle too long where they need to just give up? I mean, is it, On the COO, CFO [00:16:00] duties, or like, if you could get that founder aimed in one direction of the business. Where would that be?

Alexandra: You, you mean more like where should they be focusing on?

Wes: Yeah. Cause I feel, especially in early stage, like you're talking about financial modeling, like hair's on fire, there's a million things going on, you know, if you could just point that founder in that direction, like where, where, where is that for the business?

Alexandra: I think the biggest challenge for founders is hiring, to be honest. Uh, finding the right talent and, and making sure that they build a team that is going to help them in those 18 months, because if they have a hard time hiring or they, or they, or they don't hire the right team, they burn through runway, both in cash and in time. And so rebuilding, re onboarding, that's where really, I think a lot of founders early on struggle is to find the right team that fits the culture, that understands the product, that that's where. Honestly, [00:17:00] the more I've been in this, it's where I see the most biggest challenge, because everything else sort of starts falling into place. But hiring is, if you've never done it, it also becomes a really hard part.

Wes: What's your experience? I think it's, I'm just curious around like early stage or VC, how are founders in your experience paying themselves along the way, like if you mentioned 18 months, like what's an appropriate. Salary, right? Or most of these guys is not guys or gals, like not taking revenue or like, where's a VC like, okay, you got to eat maybe not ramen noodles every night, but what's a fair and balanced salary.

Alexandra: You know, I've seen, I've seen everything from founders who are like, I don't, I'm going to take the bare minimum, like 40, 000, because I really believe in my company and I want to put everything back to founders who are like over 200, 000. And I think it also goes back to how much they've raised, how much the VC is not going to [00:18:00] say no. Um, I've definitely seen a really, really large, most, I want to say are probably a hundred K, 90 to a hundred. But there are, there are the outsiders.

Wes: Yeah. Cause sometimes I'm like amazed that it's like, man, this person's like, Hey, I haven't taken a draw or revenue for like four years. I'm like, how, how are you surviving? You

know?

Alexandra: Yeah. Some, some,

you know, if they have a spouse or, um, they're getting some income from somewhere else, some of them, like I said to you, might take 40, 35. Very minimal.

Wes: so are you like, you know, from, from a founder perspective, I mean, it, Is a bank still the best viable option in your opinion to get capital as, as a, as a entrepreneur or founder?

Alexandra: It depends, especially right now with the interest rate. Uh, it depends. It really, I, I think there, if depending on your business too, right? Um, right now, for instance, if you're a CPG and you need to pay [00:19:00] your production, um, if you are able to, Get that money. You already have those purchase orders that are guaranteed and you can just pay it back. You know, it's still very valuable. You don't need to go get VC money to, to deliver on a purchase order, right? That, that, that wouldn't make sense. Um, so I think depending on what the business is doing, then I, I would tap into a bank, uh, for instance, I also know CPG companies that are going to Shopify loans. There are other, um, methods that are out there right now that are loaning money, but again, the interest rates. Now the, the key to that is understanding the administrative fees that all the fees that come with those loans, the interest rate, and how are you going to pay it back? When do they take it out every month?

Do they take it out every week? Do they take it out every day? That you have to be clear. And what is the impact if you're, if you don't meet your revenue or if the cashflow doesn't come as expected, [00:20:00] like where. What's the worst case scenario then in those situations?

Wes: Yeah. And like the Shopify and are you referring to like the factoring? Like I get emails all the time, you know, we have some Stripe, a business that's set up on Stripe and it's like, we'll loan you a hundred thousand, but when you look at the details and look at the interest rate and how they, you know, aggressively take revenue from you every day, it like looks appealing, but

I love the advice of like, stop, drive, like really understand what's going to make sense for you in the business, because.

You know, it sounds good at the, at the first look, but if you get into it and you're billing out 50 grand that day, but you're only getting 20, 000 of that, you know, that could be a big burden on cashflow.

Alexandra: And that's why I think a financial model helps you make those decisions, because if you can plug it in and understand, okay, I'm taking this loan, what does that mean, how does it affect, and you're able to. see the worst or the best case scenario out of doing that, then you'll be like, Oh, it actually works out.

We're fine. We're going to be okay. And, and then that's where that tool to me is. It's so essential.

Wes: So we're, we're [00:21:00] talking it's August 7th, the last couple of days, stock markets, you know, it just got decimated, right? Dropped a thousand points. Everybody's freaking out. What do you, what do you see? Uh, like how, you know, some of these companies you work with, I mean, how are, how are companies adapting to like the, the storm that's brewing in the economy?

Are there anything? Any tactics or any things that stand out to you that any companies are getting prepared for?

Alexandra: Well, I think, especially for VC backs, it's been rough for the last couple of years. Uh, not just now it's been rough because capital hasn't been as accessible, um, as it was probably in 2020 and 2021. But, um, Right now, everybody's really focused. I really do see this difference. People are truly focused on what is their burn?

How is their budget? I see all my founders are like, every time we have our monthly meeting, they're like, I want to see, am I, how, how, what was my variance from actuals to what we budgeted? Why? They're asking the questions, which to me, I [00:22:00] had not seen that in the past. So that's been really, uh, I think when founders have that awareness, It gives them a better chance at being able to continue the path instead of working in the dark and hiring or building product or pushing something that then they run out of cash, they wake up and it's, it's gone.

Wes: Yeah, how how do you see like we touched on a little bit like AI, right? So your focus around finance people infrastructure Is there anything you use or you're like that stands out in the last couple years that's really helped? Sort of, you know, just is something different or things just, cause I think of people finance and the evolution of like the last 20 years, like AI is coming out now and there's so many things you can do and for scale and management, anything that sticks out to you in the market, that's really helpful for managing people or finance [00:23:00] on the AI front.

Alexandra: So I honestly, I think obviously I, I really, We would all be lying if we don't say that we all use chat UPT. So obviously that's been playing a big part. Uh, even something as simple as when you do zoom meetings, uh, there's now note takers that take notes and come out with tasks list and who owns the task.

And now they send the task reminder. You know, those tools before you had to take your own notes and then do a recap meeting and send the recap meeting and, and so on. So they're, they're starting to be there without you even noticing it. And, and they are facilitating, uh, every, everyday tasks when you're building a business.

So those two obviously are in tools that we use all the time, uh, related to AI. I

Wes: Do you find your founders or VC backed companies, et cetera, like, are they embracing this big change in technology? Like, are they really starting to use this [00:24:00] stuff? Yeah.

Alexandra: think in the VC space, it's more, there you don't find that resistance, right? Everybody is trying to find it in a way, whether that is trying to understand consumer behavior, right? Like how are people shopping? What are people shopping? What are they putting in their car? What are they not, and how do you shift that?

take that information and now build something for them so they don't even have to think about it. So, um, people are truly trying to use it as much as possible to really enhance how consumers purchase and, and I'm actually interested to see this holiday season. You know, uh, if, if there's any new tricks and things that are going to be out there in order to really enhance the shopping experience or to make you buy more.

I, I, I'm actually really curious to see that because it's coming, you know, I see products, I see founders developing things that I'm like, wow, that's, that's cool. Once you go live, that's going to be really interesting to see it function and, and for people to, to start [00:25:00] because the more you use it, the more consumers use it, then it's collecting more data.

And that's when it gets really, uh, fun and, and interesting, the outcomes.

Wes: No, that's really cool. Like your background in retail fashion too. Like I, I have a 15 year old, a couple of 12 year olds. And a nine year old and I just got the 12 year olds begrudgingly, uh, an iPhone. Right. But they don't even talk on the phone. I don't even know if they even know it can call out to me.

It's a Snapchat machine and a, and a tick tock machine, but like I see now buying decisions or like the inputs are coming strictly in from, from tick tock.

Alexandra: Yeah.

Wes: So if I look back at like the five, 10 years, like how, how, how do you, like, for founders that aren't aware of this stuff or they're resistant, right.

To social media. Like I've talked to founders that are like, I don't care about social media. I'm like, that's crazy. Like that's where people are hanging out. You know, what, do you have any [00:26:00] recommendations on how to like, where should they be reading? What should they be focusing on? Is there any outlet out there that, that you're aware of?

That's really, that's really good for.

Alexandra: I think for founders, one that I enjoy a lot is like podcasts. To me, podcasts in general are one where you're, you're getting to hear people's opinions that you probably wouldn't hear all the time. Uh, you wouldn't have access to those people all the time. The, the way that podcasts has really changed, the access to learning about people's experiences, learning from others, is, is not something that, You know, you would have been able to find 20 years ago.

So I definitely think podcasts for founders, phenomenal. Obviously TikTok, a lot of founders do communicate through that, especially consumer good. Most, uh, those type of founders are really there because that's, again, like you said, that's where everybody is. That's where they get information. That's where you learn about a new brand and, and, [00:27:00] um, and how that brand came about.

And people want to relate to their products that they're purchasing. That is where consumer behavior, they want to be able to relate. So I definitely think TikTok is another one that is big. Um, If you're into the B2B, obviously LinkedIn is still the dominating platform. Uh, I always say that there should be something new that should come after LinkedIn, right?

We had Instagram, we've had TikTok, but LinkedIn's continue to be the ruling, uh, when it comes to anything career or B2B, more business, um, social media. And so that, that's sort of where I've been seeing the trend. I do know that some founders, some tech and non tech are, like you said, they're not as on, like on social media and participating. Uh, I do see that there is that sort of trend building, uh, of people wanting to actually connect. Honestly, the amount of events that I'm seeing in New York has It's, [00:28:00] it's, it's since the pandemic, it's, it's just tripled, like people really want to be in person. People want to connect in person. Between that and a lot of those private member clubs, there's a lot of clubs or, or community where people come together with, uh, like minded, uh, thoughts or ideas.

I'm seeing that a lot too, actually, a lot of community groups.

Wes: Yeah, I, I echo that here and I'm in the Detroit area and I think since the pandemic, yeah, a lot of people just want to come back together. Um, I've been fortunate. I was, you know, been part of this organization called EO. There's YPO, Entrepreneur Organization. So you get a lot of like, like minded founders that come together and, you know, So typically like we're bringing in a speaker, networking, like once or twice a month, you know, just to kind of keep people.

Um, so from a, from a, how, how important for you, like why the COO and CFO, you know, why, why the, why the blend there? Can you explain a little bit [00:29:00] about

Alexandra: Yeah. So the, and the reason why I wanted to do the blend and why I kept going with that is because, like I mentioned to you prior, a lot of early stage startups really need those two things to go hand in hand. Because for instance, I'll, I'll give you an example. Like there's, you get a sales team, but you need to make sure you have the right CRM set up and what, how you setting that up is going to determine the type of data that I'm going to get. As your financial person. So I want to understand how many leads you get a month, how many of those leads turns into a possible client and how many of those you close and what's the timeframe, because based on that data, I can then take that and forecast what your cashflow is going to be. Also, are they paying you upfront or are they going to pay you six months from now? Again, very much operational, setting up your CRM, understanding your meetings, understanding all that. That is an operation, a task, but what it [00:30:00] delivers is gold for someone who's managing your finances. It really gives them the data that they need to be able to be better at forecasting. Your sales and your cashflow and what your burn is going to be and when are you going to have to cut back on your budget or where do you see a challenge happening based on how your business flows?

Wes: Is there anything that stands out? I love that, right? Cause I think having a CFO mind that's actually tied into sales, but my experience around sales is you have salespeople that like to fill pipelines with really bad data, right? So is there anything

that stands out to you as we're talking about CRMs, right?

We're talking about adding a contact and then building out a funnel, right? Or pipeline stages of, Hey, new lead. What, what works really well for you as a CFO? To validate like honesty out of a salesperson by using a process. Is there anything that stands out there?

Alexandra: [00:31:00] Discipline is the hardest thing for sales. Like I have, I tend to have, when I start seeing that there's gaps, I set up monthly meetings with the sales team and I, I go over their, their hot spot in this case, right? And I go through the pipeline. I say, okay, is this updated? Why does this have this date? And start making people accountable because if the data is not updated, if they're not updating the pipeline, correct, like you said, it's just a leads in there and there's no order and there's no, um, validation to it.

It's just, then it's unuseful data and I'm going to be making the wrong projections. So what I've found that early stage is creating the discipline, right? Creating, repeating the process every month at the same time. And making people used to that pattern because that's what, that's what, when you're building a business, that's what you need.

You need that extra discipline, even though you're two people, it doesn't matter if it's two, three people, even if it's just yourself. I have a CRM for my own business. [00:32:00] Before I had a team of nine, I set it up. Was it the best setup? No, but it was something to capture something and start by there and creating that, that discipline.

Wes: That's awesome. I love that you're proactive from the, I don't have experience with the CFO. Typically they're in the background, right? Um, so with that, right. And I think this is also subjective to your industry, but you had mentioned HubSpot. Are there any other CRMs that as a CFO, COO that you like? Cause I think that's the question I get all the time.

Like what's the best CRM? My response is, I don't know. It depends, but there is HubSpot, Salesforce, Pipedrive, some other ones. Right. Is there anything that stands out on your end that just works well with some of the companies you work with?

Alexandra: Honestly, I try to, one of the ways that I try to keep it as efficient, maybe it's on my end, is to, to use one tool and really become really good at it. And Hotspot was the one that I have always had that experience. And I actually think it goes well with someone who's very early on and it's [00:33:00] gone really well for someone who's growing.

Uh, I think. Obviously, PipeDrive, I've tried it, but I haven't focused as much on it as I have, um, on HubSpot. What I also like about HubSpot is their reporting. I think everything comes down to reporting. To me, I always go with a tool because, like, the last check off is like, okay, what's my reporting?

Because if I don't have good reporting, the tool can be amazing, but I need the data. I need to be able to extract the data. And by the way, this is one of the things that goes back to operations, where a lot of founders also don't give it enough thought. It's like, what are all your data points? And then how are you capturing that data?

Because it is essential when you have KPIs and you build your KPIs, it shouldn't take you a month to update your KPIs. Your KPIs should be something you're able to update. Let's just say at the most, a week. Right. And so if, if you don't understand where, what your [00:34:00] KPIs are, then you have to work backwards.

Where's that data? Is that data clear? And that goes back to the operational side that I always go back to founders and say, this data is not, it's just not, it's, it's, it's not helpful.

Wes: What's funny you mentioned that because I'm, I'm getting like, uh, flashbacks to my last company, like every report I would get, I couldn't trust it. I'd find mistakes and we were always like every quarter, the, the goal or we operated off EOS, right? So the rock was work on some system to get clean data and reporting.

And then by the time that would finish. We'd have to retool it for something else. I don't think I ever got real data. Right. And we use Salesforce. Everything was so complicated. I'm a visionary. I looked at Salesforce and I'm like, this is Greek to me. I have no idea what I'm looking at, but people are, we have like three to five people supporting this thing.

And I'm like, what are we doing? Like we have this really expensive CRM. We have like [00:35:00] three to five people supporting it yet. I still can't get data and trust the data. It blew my mind, but I was missing a COO. I was missing a good COO that had the vision. So I think that's a really good point of, you know, bring somebody in that can really focus on these things.

I think as an early stage founder, you know, it's hard sometimes cause you're like, ah, do I invest in there? Do I really need to make that investment? But. Yeah. Hindsight's the best teacher. And I see those things for what they're worth now. It's like, they're, they're critical

Alexandra: Yeah, because that data is going to help you go fundraise your next round. You know, you can able, you're able to tell the investor, this is how long it's taking me to close the deal. This is how many are, uh, how, this is how many one salesperson takes, uh, this, how many leads one person manages all that data they're going to ask you.

And that's going to validate your business. It's going to validate the potential of the business and, and how you have to hire, right? Because if you're going to go fundraise for more money. Then if you have that data, then you can say, I need two more salespeople, [00:36:00] not just say, I think I need five. Well, how do you back, how are you back into that?

Wes: in your experience. Do you see a, do you see a shift with salespeople? You know, there, there's the mentality of, you know, a salesperson coming into an organization and working the marketing leads that are coming into an organization, and then there's like, go out and hunt and get business. Right. I mean, every salesperson I run against, they want, they all want leads coming in and they all want, leads.

Do you still, like, do you see a big shift with, that's like 50 50 in the companies you work with? Or are companies really doubling down to try to generate all the opportunities to kind of move towards an inside sales model? What's your experience there?

Alexandra: I think so. And, and this is very, my opinion here, but I think the founder has to sell their product. They need to be able to understand who their consumer is and understand what they do, where they are, what do they read? How do they educate themselves? Everything. [00:37:00] For the founder to then be able to. Because they're the one who created the product. They're the one who are passionate about solving this problem. So they need to really understand that this audience exists so that they can then go and be able to speak to the salespeople that they're hiring. This is where you're going to find them. This is how you're going to find them. Yes, you can hire a sales team and they can come and help you and bring their experience into this. But at the end of the day, they didn't find the problem and they didn't try to come up with a solution to solve it. So that's my opinion. When you see founders that are really going out there and selling their own product and really understanding how to like, what it takes to sell the product and what it takes to bring the value to those people, I think then they can go and tell sales to them. Listen, put all that in marketing and, and just try to buy the leads or no, go out and, and, and knock on every single door. I think that that comes to play. That's my first angle. And my second angle, again, to their [00:38:00] point of how are people communicating? People are in person more and more. And depending on the type of product that you're trying to sell, that in person cannot be replaced. I think it's hard. It's a relationship, right? Especially if you're talking about enterprise

contracts, a lot of those times, those are relationships.

Wes: Yeah, people, I see a lot more people now jumping back on planes and visiting and, you know, want the, want the in person. Um, in terms of people, what's the, what's like the biggest shift you've seen in the last couple of years? I mean, coming out of COVID and the current economic state we're in, good, bad, or indifferent.

I mean, a company's got to position itself as, Hey, like they have to be attractive, like come work for us and share in the vision. Anything stand out that's changed over the last five years that founders need to be mindful of and, and, you know, adding great, great people to their team?

Alexandra: Yeah, I think one is, I think remote is great, uh, and given I work remote, but I think my role is a little bit different than [00:39:00] other people. If you're hiring people very early on, if you think about it, when we came out of college, like you didn't have the structure, you didn't know what a day at work and an office consisted of. You can't expect people to come out of college and be put remote. and be able to give you 100 percent output. You know, I think there is a value to coming into the office, honestly, and I do see it. There are some people that I've interviewed that are out of college. They want that experience. They want the community.

They want to be able to talk to their colleagues. They want to be able to ask questions. So I do think there is that shift that there are people who want it and then there's people who don't. People who really want the flexibility to work from an office and or work from outside an office. Um, But I do think, especially for early stage in tech, there is a benefit about that in person.

And I do think as much money as they're trying to save because [00:40:00] you don't have to pay for an office space and they're doing workarounds, I think they're also noticing that in person is important.

Wes: Yeah, I totally echo that. I just doubled down personally on an office. I tried the work from home thing. I have five kids. It's impossible. Like I just can't get in the mindset working from home. Now if I was a single guy, maybe out of like maybe different priorities, but the reality is yeah, how how do you get?

Rooted in the culture. How do you feel? How do you connect? You know, we have a guy that's you know The other day he's like, hey, i'm kind of struggling here but man, you know every time I come in the office, I feel really good and i'm like You need to come in the office every day. I mean, I don't know why you're choosing not to come in the office.

Like we have a great location, but there's like this mentality of, well, if I'm an employee, like I need to be in control or I need to have the ability to work from home, but I don't think anybody really gets anything done. It's hard to be proactive when you're at home.

Alexandra: It takes a lot of discipline. Uh, it [00:41:00] takes tremendous discipline. Like you have to be very Good at time management. And, and, and, and not to say that if, that, that if you work, if you work from an office, you don't have good time management. I just mean like it takes an extra effort. Like you humanly have to put the, like block everything, like put guardrails that you wouldn't have to do in the office.

Right. Because the office sort of gives you that comfort zone. Yeah,

Wes: Yeah. Like for me, it's a mindset, right? When I'm at my office, I'm like focused when I'm not here, it's, it kind

of escapes my mind when I, you know, so, well, uh, I could sit and talk and ask questions for hours with you, but if somebody, you know, there's a founder, there's an early stage startup, you know, sounds like you can come in and really move the needle.

Um, how do people get in contact with you if they have questions around how you could help them?

Alexandra: yeah. Definitely. They can reach out to me through LinkedIn. Um, we have both, uh, your cohort site and my page, or they can also go to our website, [00:42:00] yourcohort. co and there they have a form and they can fill that form out, but you know, I'm always available. I, I'm very passionate about what we're building. I'm very passionate about helping founders and giving them the empowerment grow their business.

You know, I want them to have a shot at growing their business. And if it doesn't work out, it was because you didn't have a market fit, but I don't want it to be because you ran out of money or you didn't spend the money correctly, or you didn't think about how to properly forecast your business. I think that's a miss because you might have a phenomenal solution in your hands.

Wes: That's really great. I hope if there's a founder listening and they need some help, I think you walking them through that process is super important. So thank you so much, Alexander, for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Alexandra: No, thank you so much for having me. And I look forward to meeting you in Michigan.

Wes: I can't wait. Thank you.

Outro: This has been another episode of Entrepreneur Intel. Thank you for joining us. For show [00:43:00] notes or other episodes, please visit us at entrepreneurintel. com. Until next time.