Entrepreneur Intel

Wes Matthews:  This is the unfiltered truth about entrepreneurship. Raw, no BS, no sugarcoating. Welcome to entrepreneur Intel. I'm your host, Wes Matthews. Each episode, we'll learn from experienced founders and uncover the top 5 percent of learnings that led to their success in all things, personal, family, and business. This show is sponsored by Stealth Consulting, delivering clear marketing strategies, ROI, and no surprises.

Wes Matthews: So I'm super excited for today's guest. First podcast of the new year for me. So that's kind of fun, coming off a little break, but I want to introduce our first guest because, you know, from an entrepreneurial perspective, he started his company in 2012. So about 13 years ago, with nothing, which I love, because that's kind of, everybody starts from nothing and it's super scary. And what about, I think he's told me about a year later, only had about 5, 000 and we're kind of worried about the future of the company. Cause he put everything into his business.

Wes Matthews: So I think, you know, for me as an entrepreneur, it's exciting when somebody just knows the vision, the passion, they go all in and, Jay Hawreluk, I want to introduce it. He made a big bet on himself and the vision of the company. AcuMax index has six employees and does over a million dollars of revenue.

Wes Matthews: So very far away from 2012 and 2013, but Jay welcome so much. Thanks so much for taking the time and coming on.

Jay Hawreluk: Thanks, Wes. Thanks for having me.

Wes Matthews: So I'm going to go back. Like I like to go back. I love getting in the head of entrepreneurs and you know, what made you in 2012 go down this path? Right. I know you've had a couple of stints with entrepreneurship and maybe let's call it corporate, but what convicted you so much to go all in on this concept?

Jay Hawreluk: Well, I think there were, there were two reasons. Number one, I worked for a personality assessment company and I was very successful there. But some of the things they taught, I truly questioned, you know, the concepts were 40, 50 years old. And at the time they came out, they were brilliant. But the test of time didn't really stand up to that, you know, so I kind of questioned that and I did get a little tired of beating my head against the corporate wall, you know, say we need to change this. Well, you know, I put it under committee review and if they agree with it, that maybe next year, 2 years or 3 years and secondarily, I've been involved with an organization called Vistage. I had involved with them in 2001 and I kiddingly say it was from hanging out from all those entrepreneurs. I got the entrepreneurial bug.

Jay Hawreluk: I did, you know, I mean because Vistage is pretty much an organization of entrepreneurs. And I learned an awful lot, from a financial perspective and a marketing perspective and to get a company going. So I would say this is probably those two reasons. That really, kind of catapulted me into taking the full jump at becoming an entrepreneur.

Wes Matthews: So educate me a bit, right? So Acumax index to me, right? Like in my entrepreneurial experience, I'm familiar with Colby. I think a lot of entrepreneurs are familiar with Colby. There's DISC. There's something that I've learned about locally that somebody just created and my experience with these behavioral assessments or from a business perspective, it's, you know, if I can learn and understand about somebody like a potential employee. Cause in my first company, like I became an entrepreneur like you, I kind of just dove in and did it and I didn't realize like at some point I was going to have to hire people and then I started to interview people, which by the way, I'm just completely horrible at all of this, but you know, people show up to an interview, right?

Wes Matthews: And they're giving a hundred percent and they're showing up and they really want the job and they kind of tell you everything you want to hear. But to my understanding is. You know, the assessments really get you to understand who this individual is at the core from an interview perspective, but there was also a period of my company where I made some investments to understand how people get along and teams, etc. So can you educate us on that? Because I have a little experience with Colby. I hear a lot of people reference DISC. Can you just talk about Acumax Index and what that is at the core?

Jay Hawreluk: Well, the majority of personality assessments in the marketplace, Colby, DISC, are based in the social sciences or the observable behavior of people. We are groundbreaking as we are based in the neural sciences. In the 18 to 24 month period after any human being on the planet is born, certain chemicals come together in the brain and they create specific neural pathways. Now there's millions of pathways that are created during this time period that control all sorts of functions.

Jay Hawreluk: What we measure for is how they apply to business and relationships. And let's face it, business is nothing but relationships. So it's a deeper dive into an individual because behavior changes over time due to external, you know, We, I kind of kiddingly do this, but I'll ask people, you know, do you have kids? And did you go through the terrible twos? And everybody always raises their hand. And the reason being is your neural pathways are the purest at that point in time. They haven't been inundated yet by external things. So what do I mean by external things? Well, you know, where I'm born, upbringing, education, age and maturity. It's why you don't behave the same way today as you did when you were 18. Alright?

Jay Hawreluk: So it's a deep dive into an individual, but your wiring is static. It stays with you throughout your entire lifetime. It tells us the environment in which you best thrive. It's why businesses will hire two candidates. Same background, and same skill set. One's a rock star. The other one's a rock. Why? It's all in the wire. You know, one is wired to perform that role. Well, one is not. And our minds are powerful. It can make us do things that are against our innate wiring. However, that's negative stress. You know, there's positive stress for a deadline or getting a project off the ground, but that's negative stress.

Jay Hawreluk: And the longer an individual has negative stress, the more it can have a negative outcome. On them emotionally, mentally, or even physically. You know, I went into a company one time, and one of the executives twisting himself, totally inside out, extremely de-energized. And I looked at him and I said, I don't really want to, you know, scare you or concern you, but. Gosh, you know, you're a candidate for a heart attack. And he looked at me, he said, I've been back at work two weeks i had one six weeks ago. Well, so those are the negatives. When you align somebody in the environment based upon their wiring, they're happier, they're more productive. They're a positive contributor to the organization. They usually need less oversight, you know, cause the reality of it is as business people, where do we spend our time with the problem children, not the performers, the problem children. That's a standard. So, you know, when, when you hire that way, your chance of success skyrockets and you eliminate a lot of the internal things that can occur.

Jay Hawreluk: You know, what do I mean? Well, you know, when somebody is not a wiring fit for their job, they're oftentimes a turnover issue in an organization, they're oftentimes a problem child. So you can eliminate that and kind of align people, because as people have wiring jobs, and when you match the two, the chance of success skyrockets. Standard hiring gives you about a 40 percent hit rate, which means four out of every 10 candidates you hire will perform as expected from date of hire.

Jay Hawreluk: I mean, 60 percent will not. Using an assessment such as this, you know, overdoubles that it takes to about 85%. You know, because somebody could have the right background, the right skill set, the right wiring, but you know, if they're going to the casino every night and staying out till 2 AM, it's going to be tough to be sharpened on the job at 8 AM in the morning.

Wes Matthews: No, I appreciate you saying that because that was going to be my first question that's, you know, I think a lot of companies are like, well, let me just, you know, go with my gut or I think as an entrepreneur, I think one of my challenges as a visionary entrepreneur and many entrepreneurs, they do go with their gut, right?

Wes Matthews: Again, they go to an interview, somebody shows up, says exactly what they want to hear, and they take a risk. But if you start to think about those numbers in the sense of, you know, do I want to be 40 percent right? Or do I want to be 80 percent right? And this is a tool and something that can kind of take the emotion away from it and tell me, and for me, I'm an emotional guy right? And I'm like, so what's interesting, what I want to mention really quick, but then I want to go back is I took the index. I personally did it. And when I did it, the questions I answered, I thought were just like preliminary questions to get me to the test. And I think I did it in like, I don't know, a couple minutes or something. Cause I was like ready to sit down to do it. And it's like, you're completed. And I go, there's no way I go. There is absolutely no way this test is going to mirror me or tell me who I am. Yeah. I honestly can say, I think it was like a hundred percent accurate in telling me who I am at the core. Like it, it kind of, it blew my mind.

Wes Matthews: Cause I think often too, as an entrepreneur, you start thinking Colby disc. I still don't understand discs. People throw out acronyms all the time. And I'm like, I don't. I don't know what that means. Your tools are so simple to understand. And again, I want to really talk about that. You know what, I don't know what the average median salary is or what the total cost of an employee is. I'm sure you have way better data points than I do, but if you're hiring somebody for a hundred thousand dollars a year, Taxes, insurance, and, all these different things and time to ramp up. You know, you're probably really all in for 130, 000, 140, 000. And if you're telling me that your tool, like can double my success rate. Right? And kind of take the emotion out of who we're hiring. Man, the numbers are that's a good way to kind of add something like this into a hiring process. Because that's a lot of revenue.

Jay Hawreluk: Well, the beauty of our system is number one, we're statistically validated, which is what you have to be, to be used in the pre-screening process. We're EEOC compliant. You don't apply for it. You just have to be it, which means basically you don't discriminate or tilt toward or against any protected class. So the beauty of our program is we're company-specific. So, you know, you go in, we go into the organization, we will survey individuals, high performers, we'll create position profiles from, and then you can screen them. The test, we say it takes 5 minutes to complete, but actually our average completion time is under 4. And so with the press of a button, I can see how well they match. If they match, I bring them in for an interview. If they don't match, I pass on them.

Jay Hawreluk: So, it saves you time and money in the recruitment process. It's also very informative because if you have a candidate who doesn't complete the survey, those are usually the people that schedule interviews and don't show up, you know, so I mean, it's kind of like people calls and say, well, you know, we really like this candidate, but they didn't complete the survey.

Jay Hawreluk:Yes, they're not that interested. And then we also have interview questions that are specific to that wiring pattern. Because when you bring somebody in, like Wes, if I brought you in, I already know a lot about you, I don't know you personally, but I do know your wiring. But we also have a specific question that, and the reason for, we developed these questions was there's no good honesty assessment in the marketplace. There really isn't.

Jay Hawreluk: And here's a shocker for entrepreneurs out there. Candidates will sometimes fib. I read a quote once and it was great. It said, if all the improvements that occurred on resumes actually occurred in the marketplace, our GDP would be 10 percent a year. And job interviews can be Academy Award-winning performances.

So we, you know,, the questions are designed to a deep dive. Is the person self-aware of who they are? Are they telling the truth? You know, if I may use you as an example.

Wes Matthews: Absolutely. Use me.

Jay Hawreluk: If I said, are you a team player? What I would expect to hear based on your wiring is, Jay, under certain circumstances, if I can build the team, manage the team, run the team, I'm a team player.

Jay Hawreluk: If I just have to be part of the team, I can do it, but I'm really not that engaged. That would be an honest answer. If you came back and said, Hey, I'm team, team, team. Wesley TT is my middle initial team. That's me, a hundred percent team. It would put up a red flag. So, you know, it does help you get a deeper dive into an individual for their self-awareness and if they're telling the truth.

Wes Matthews: So I want to put a pin on that. Cause I love all that, but I feel like I got to go back to 20, 20, 12 real quick. Why, why as an entrepreneur, what led you down this path?

Jay Hawreluk: Well, while I was working for another organization, it was a behavioral assistance assessment based on the social sciences. I got interested in the neural sciences.

Jay Hawreluk: Neural sciences are actually a growing field. So I started to do research into the neural sciences and I thought to myself, There's no real instrument out here that measures innate human wiring. So I started to do the research on it, and then I made a decision that I was going to leave my employer and follow through on this. So I left. I had a one-year non-solicitation that I honored. During that time period, I worked on this, you know, I worked on it and frankly, you know, Facebook was kind of handy because I talked to people I had talked to since high school, 35, 40 years ago. And, so I started working on it. And at first, I made a big mistake.

Jay Hawreluk: I tried to do everything and it came out as garbage. So then I said, well, I'm just going to. Focus on one drive individually and then once I had, statistics on that one drive for, and then I did all four, then I put them together and I actually went into organizations and said, Hey, look, I want to survey your team. I'll give you all the reports. I'll give you everything. Just let me survey them and then let me interview them. And so during the interview process, sometimes I would say the person just as they are other times. I would say, you know, well, you know, Wes, you really like a team environment. You're pretty introverted and you really like a process and you look lots of detail. What's look at me and go. What are you crazy? That's not me show the report and said, read this. So I would do it a couple of different ways. I went into. I don't know how many organizations I got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of surveys was extremely time-consuming, but it was very important to make sure that it was valid and correct.

Jay Hawreluk: So I went and did all of that for a year and then, late in 2012, I. Worked with an I. T. Contractor to develop our first song. And so on October 1st, we opened it. We had very, very basic software. We had two reports position matching and that was it. Now we have 18 different reports. And I opened it up and I had no clients and pretty much no money left at that point in time.

Jay Hawreluk: And, but I had a vision and, you know, just probably the advice I could give to anybody is when you have a vision, just be persistent at it. You know, you're going to have roadblocks, things aren't going to work out your way, but you got to be persistent at it. And you just got to continue to forge on.

Wes Matthew: It's great. It's great advice. I mean, cause I think the one thing that I hear from you and what we've talked about is just, you were convicted on your vision. And I think as an entrepreneur like if you're not bought into your vision, you're going to have a rough time because you're going to fail. You're going to make massive mistakes with everything. Right? So can you talk about that a little bit? Because I think I'm very interested in the sense of, you know, as an entrepreneur, right? Like you, you found a gap in the market. You want to create something, but you took a big leap, like hiring a company to build something out. That's in your brain versus like, what's already in the open market. Right? Cause I don't know what was going on in that world in 2012, 2013. But, there is like DISC. I'm sure there's other assessments out there that are in the marketplace. Like, how did you think about that when you entered into this new vision on how you're going to compete to stand out of the crowd?

Jay Hawreluk: Well, because we're based in the neurosciences and we measure innate human wiring, that was our huge differentiator. I realize there's competition, you know, but only it's 28 percent of organizations actually use a hiring assessment. So that means that 72 percent do not, and there's a huge you know, number of businesses in this organization.

Jay Hawreluk: So I looked at the market and said, there's a lot of room in this marketplace for us, and I think people will embrace the human wiring aspect, because we're unique, we're different, we give a deep dive. It's why we're so incredibly correct. And, one of the things that I noticed about many assessments is they slant toward or against someone, alright?

Jay Hawreluk: So, ours is completely objective. We look at somebody's strengths. We look at their limitations. Everybody's got. There's no perfect wiring pattern. So everybody's got. So being objective and looking at the strengths and limitations of an individual.

Jay Hawreluk: Number 1, it creates huge amounts of buy-in, you know, and number 2, We're not slanting toward or against anyone because the ideal profile you need is the profile for the job.

Jay Hawreluk: And so when somebody reads their results, they have to feel positive about who they are, you know, not negative about who they are. So those were a couple of opportunities that I saw in the marketplace and took advantage of.

Wes Matthews: So help me understand right. If I have, you know, an entrepreneur that's listening or, you know, You've got a lot of companies that have a handful of people. They might be interested in hiring two to four people this year, right? They've identified some seats within their organization. Is it, you know, I hook up with AcuMax Index and, you know, I'm educating myself on how to use the platform so I can do the assessments. Is it companies hire you direct to handle that entire process or is a little bit of both and you guys kind of serve? Kind of meeting clients where they're at.

Jay Hawreluk: No, what we do is what our program is, it's an unlimited usage program, and the reason it's an unlimited usage program is because you want to screen candidates because if you say, okay, Wes, I'll give you five surveys, Wes is going to pick five people and they could all be horrible for the job and we say no.

Jay Hawreluk: So we say no, no. It's unlimited survey. You run through that. We teach you the concepts. We've made it very easy. A lot of assessments out there required awful lot of training. We instead have said, okay, we're going to enhance our software, put the training down to a minimum. So you understand the basics.

Jay Hawreluk: But if I want to know. Lesson sales style. I can press a report on that. I want to know what, proactive and responsive drives. I could get a report on that. What social and task orientation I can get a report on that. So we've increased the usage of the software to decrease the amount of time for training. Some of our competitors, it may be 2 or 3 days that you have to train. We do it in about 3 hours. Spent about three and a half hours, but over a couple of days, and then we provide unlimited consulting to the client during that term. Our programs run for one year, you'll get a positive ROI with one hire. And then we work with you. And so we want you to learn this.

Jay Hawreluk: I mean, one of my goals is I want my clients to know this. Well, we have probably 50 percent of our client base that knows this stone cold. Follows the process. You know, we rarely ever hear from them. If we do, it's kind of like a touch in a how you doing? But they believe in it and probably one of the biggest things when a new company embraces us is you have to trust it.

Jay Hawreluk: And we have clients that don't, you know, I mean, we'll get emails, you know, there was a guy who was a red match, but we hired, hired him anyway. And we just had to fire him. And, you know, the response is always, well, kind of, we're glad you did it that way you show some validity, but now follow our process. And you'll get great hiring results. I mean, we have companies that have virtually no turnover, other than maybe retirement or somebody moving out of the state, we've worked with large organizations that have 95, a hundred percent turnover. That's down to 60%. They say, wow, 60 percent still awfully high, not compared to a hundred percent.

Jay Hawreluk: So you're saving money in that aspect. And when you're small, especially. Every hire counts. A large organization, you'd have a bad hire, they could hide for a while. But in a small organization, every hire counts. And if you hire the wrong person at that point in time, it just costs you time and money and frustration.

Wes Matthews: Do you feel like, you know, so obviously as you're talking to like new customers, new potential customers, right? They've obviously hired, or they have staff, and I would imagine part of the problem is like, Hey, Jay, I've got X amount of employees. I'm speculating some things around a couple, like, do you rerun assessments based on who's there today and get involved? Or, you know, how does that work? Because I assume. You're not, everybody's coming to you fresh out of the gate. It's like, Hey, here, here we are. Here's the challenges. How would we get started? So for example, like my organization, we have, we have a team of nine. And then we have some hiring needs going into this year. How do you begin an engagement with a client that makes the most sense?

Jay Hawreluk: Well, the first thing we do with a new client is they survey everybody, whether they're a high performer or an under. Performer because it's data. So you survey everyone. Now, if we have enough of a sampling set, we can create position profiles from that object of data.

Jay Hawreluk: The reality of it is three things happen when a company brings us in. Number one, you'll have underperformers who will perform better because you know how to properly motivate them. Motivators are the innate things, a wiring pattern needs. They transcend money. So, you know, for example, in your case, if I hired you and micromanaged you to death, you'd be miserable. You want freedom and autonomy, you know, says Jay. You know, show me the end zone, but let me get there and judge me when I get there. Now, so we have underperformers who will perform better because you know how to properly motivate them. One size motivation techniques never work because they fail on 70, 80 percent of the population.

Jay Hawreluk: Number two, they'll have some square pegs and round holes. We say, you know what I never thought about it, but this person would be better fit over here. And lastly, in the reality of it is sometimes you have to give people the opportunity to excel at another company. And but I'm all about the growth of the organization and the health of the organization. I mean, we started working with companies that had 10, 12 employees that have over a hundred today. You know, one company we started working with eight years ago, I had 35 employees. They have 185 today and they follow our process. And that's kind of the critical thing. I will get emails from the CEO at times. And every time I get an email, I know it's somebody who doesn't fit the role, but he likes them, but I give him a lot of credit when I say, no, he, he won't continue on.

Wes Matthews: So in your mind then, right? Like you're the, you're the guy behind the curtain and you have so much knowledge in this, is it, can you pretty much predict or. Yeah, those emails that come back, it's just people hiring against the model or like it's basically telling them don't do that. They do that. You know, the outcome that's going to happen.

Jay Hawreluk: We have a pretty good idea, you know, but one of the things we really stress is we're here to save you time and money.
Alright? if you're not completely bought in, we understand. But follow our process because if you're continuing to do the same thing over and over again, Einstein's definition of insanity, you brought us in to do something different. So let's do something different, but follow that new process. And I think we've probably gotten better over the years of really stressing that, to the clients and saying, I know what your gut may tell you, but your gut you used before, and that created some very negative hiring. So follow our process.

Wes Matthews: Yeah, I think you're pretty dialed in. I think you said 40%. Like, my guts got me into a lot of problems over the past, right? I think that, you know, I think one of my challenges as a visionary, there was a time and period I actually had to get out of the hiring process. Because every single person I would interview, like I just fell in love with and I'm like, yep, that's the person like bring him in. And then two weeks later, I'm like, what is going on here? You know, I wish I would have met you 15 years ago, like who do you best get along with? Right? I mean, is your product for entrepreneurial companies? Is it for enterprise? Is it for all of the above? If there's a hiring element, you know, That your solution needs to be part of it.

Jay Hawreluk: Well, you know, we deal with companies that employ people. So we're in probably 80 different industries right now. We deal with companies that employ people and from small organizations to large organizations. I mean, we have clients that have 3000 employees. We also have clients that have eight employees or five employees or two employees.

Jay Hawreluk: And we adjust our pricing based on the size of the organization. So we're very, very affordable to them. So, you know, probably the most successful clients are those who understand the value of a process. Those that understand the value of a process, Do much better. Now, a lot of companies are going towards a process. You know, there's a lot of companies out there that are teaching the structure of organizations and how to assign rocks and develop an actual process. So it's becoming better knowledge in the marketplace of the value of a process, you know, I mean, to scale an organization, you need repeatable processes.

Wes Matthews: Do you feel that for me? And again, I think, what really excites me and makes me really interested in you and Acumax index, it's how accurate it was when I took it. And I really didn't feel on the other end, taking it that I was actually doing anything. And again, to the point of you're like, I don't know if it was you or one of your team, team members are like, no, you took the test. I'm like, no, no, no. It was like a little survey. I think it was the question I didn't get it. And you're like, no, you got it. Then when we met, you were like laughing at me cause you could like describe me to the T and I'm like, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. So like how as an entrepreneur, like listening to this, or.I highly recommend it. I mean, it's just one of those things that as a visionary entrepreneur, which is most of my sphere of influence and people were emotional people, you know, you could probably describe who I am to the T based on the assessment you gave. And my gut's good, but my gut can also lead me down the wrong path sometimes of like delusion.

Wes Matthews: And. So is your product then good? So in the entrepreneurial world that I, my experience is, you know, visionaries aren't good process people, but you have like a COO or somebody within the organization that can kind of keep the train on the rails, like, who do you best work with inside an organization? Is it, you know, the visionary until there's HR people involved or like an operator or who do you typically cling on to that makes us the best the best success?

Jay Hawreluk: It's two areas and you know, number one we do work with human resources because they're Responsible for hiring. So oftentimes we'll go into an organization Usually a little more established organization Work with HR to standardize their hiring and then we work with senior leadership because it's important to get that buy in. So you, there's kind of a twofold approach.

Jay Hawreluk: Now, if it's a small organization that doesn't have an HR department, we work immediately with senior, but you got to get the buy in of senior leadership. Why? Because of the reasons you just stated, you know, the CEO, I really liked this person over here and they're just a rockstar. Well, they're a horrible match.

Jay Hawreluk: So you want to get that buy-in for them and understand the value. I mean, I kiddingly say this, but there's a lot of truth. If turnover and underperformance were line items on a balance sheet, we'd have clients lined up down because it costs money. And people are oftentimes they say, well, you know, a hundred thousand dollar employee. I read it cost me 500, 000 to replace them. That's not really true. It probably isn't, but it costs at least a one-time salary.

Jay Hawreluk: And if you hire the wrong person and they're only there for 90 days, it's like opening up the window and throwing out money for those 90 days.

Wes Matthews: And your time and investment. Right? So to me, it's like you got to take the time to onboard somebody and have patience and transfer that institutional knowledge and as talking to you as an entrepreneur, it's like, man, if I have somebody in that seat, that's just, they're just not going to get it. If I knew that in the beginning, I wouldn't invest a minute trying to pass that knowledge on. Right?

Wes Matthews: So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's an interesting concept or an interesting idea that you talk about because people talk about it, they throw it around, but they don't take it seriously. And there's a real cost. I mean, if I go back to our last company and how many employees we had and the challenges we had, Oh my gosh, like I would say we were probably 25 percent right. And just the time, energy, effort, the cost that we burn through, probably in the tunes of millions and millions of dollars.

Wes MAtthews: So Jay, I love recommending companies that I use and believe in. And again, I just go back to like when we met and you were like laughing at me and describing me and you were like describing it. Cause I just couldn't believe that it was such a temple test. Cause I think that. Oftentimes entrepreneurs get like scared and overwhelmed. Like there's Colby and again, they're a little bit different, but in the same sort of like world, Colby's kind of complicated disc is complicated. Even when I read that stuff, I'm like, man, it's kind of, maybe I'm not smart enough like I'm a one plus one is two kind of guy, but they just seem complicated to like, Implement into our workflow.
But for what you have is just so easy. Like how, you know, there's got to be an entrepreneur listening. That's like, man, I'm just tired of burning through people. Is it me? Is it them? Is it whatever, like what's the easiest way for somebody to kind of dip their toe in or learn a little bit more about what it is that you guys are offering? Cause I believe in it a ton and I wish more entrepreneurs would take advantage of it and use it.

Jay Hawreluk: Well, normally when we engage with the prospect, the first thing we do is have them take the survey and there are 2 reasons. Number 1, oftentimes people are like, are you sure it's only 5 minutes? So I'll be like, here, do it for yourself. Just like you did do it for yourself. And then 2nd of all, we'll go over the results and you can judge the validity of the results for yourself. Because when I 1st met you, I didn't know you, you know, I mean, we had a quick conversation. I didn't know. Then you did the survey. Okay. So then, wow, it is fast and quick and easy, which is a key when you're using that in the pre-hire selection process. Because if you have an assessment that takes 20 minutes or 30 minutes, A lot of candidates are like, I'm not going to do this. Five minutes. And then second of all, to judge the validity of the results. Then we start to consult and say, okay, what are you looking to do? You know, are you looking to reduce turnover?

Jay Hawreluk: Are you looking to improve your sales force? Because companies have different reasons for it. And that's usually the area we'll attack first. So if they have high turnover, we'll attack that first. If they're struggling in sales. We'll attack that, you know, actually turnover and sales are probably our two biggest reasons that people incorporate us.

Wes Matthews: Yeah, I could see that. Right. Cause I agree. I think sales is probably the hardest, one of the hardest departments to fill.

Jay Hawreluk: Well, and there's a reason, you know, there's sales hunters. And they're sales farmers. That's just the reality. Now, are salespeople born or made? Salespeople are born. Sales skill is made.
You know, you could have a great wiring pattern for sales, but if I don't have any sales skill, but it's easier to teach skills. It's impossible to teach wiring. So in the marketplace, there are probably six farmers for every hunter. And farmers tell you all the right things. Farmers do great with existing clients.

They'll get additional business out of existing clients, but they're not going to go hunt down. In a job interview, you've got a farmer there. Will you do? Oh, man, I'm going to gold goal and I'm going to generate so much business. And then, you know, after there are six months, it's like, well, you haven't generated any business. Well, that's because they have to take care of this customer, this customer, and this customer, so you get excuses. Hunters. are the ones that develop Now, when you have a hunt aspects of, let them develop new business, but then tu for servicing farmers will job.

Jay Hawreluk: So we oftentimes can In many organizations, you may need one hunter supported by two or three farmers. So when they make that initial, develop that new business, they can turn it over to somebody that can nurture it.

Wes Matthewes: So what's really interesting for me talking to you, like. You know, that's so well. And I think a lot of entrepreneur entrepreneurs, either they're at Hunter themselves or they're a farmer and they create a lot of delusion in their own mind. And I think what you're doing can save a lot of time, and headaches, create a lot of clarity. Cause what I've noticed too, and I don't know, like I was born in 1981 and I feel like, you know, now. As our, our clientele, like things are changing, like these generations, I can't label them Gen Z, X or whatever that is, but we spent some time yesterday with, she was in her late twenties and she was just describing like her sphere of influence and what her age brackets into, it was like blowing my mind. Like, I couldn't even believe half the stuff she was saying. And just how, in terms of buying houses and jobs and just their thought process. Do you find that your tool, I mean, I would think it's even more important now than it's ever been, but have you try, have you had to make modifications around that?Or is it just, Hey, the wiring's, the wiring and it just doesn't change?

Jay Hawreluk: The wiring's, the wiring, it doesn't change. 'cause people ask, you know, well, is. Gen Z. Why you're differently than millennials. No, there are different external things. Technologies advanced, you know, I mean, gosh, you know, I mean, you were born in 81. I was born in 1956. So I've seen, you know, well, you've seen it too, you know, the advent of fax machines and how they went away, you know, they were the hottest thing in the world. Therefore, the technology changes. So, because of that, how I view the world changes. You know, when I, when I first got into business, everything was paper, you had to have paper copies of everything and files, and, you know, now we're completely paperless, you know, so, but that's just part of the evolution of technology and the evolution in the environment, but wiring's wiring, you know, millennials and Gen Z's and baby boomers and Gen X's, you know, they're all wired the same, it's just their outlook, how they view the world is different.

Wes Matthew: That's great. yeah, really interesting stuff. Would you do me a favor? So some people that enjoy the podcast or like my entrepreneurial sphere of influence, so if they reach out to you, like number one, I want to know how people can get a hold of you. Cause I think you can make a massive impact on their business, but if they want to run an assessment for themselves to see it, because I think it's, once you see it, you can't unsee it. Right? I think as an entrepreneur, if they take your test, how can people do that? Like how can people get in contact with you or even run an assessment just to get a taste of what you're doing?

Jay Hawreluk: Oh, there's two ways. Number one, you can go directly to our website, www.acumax index, that's A-C-U-M-A-X index.com. Or you can email me direct. And that's Jay hawreluk@acuindex.com. J-A-Y-H-A-W-R-E-L-U-K at. A C U M A X I N D X. com. Either way. If you go through the website, you'll deal with one of my consultants, they're all very skilled. Or you can email me direct and say, Hey, I listened to Wes's podcast and I'd like to do a complimentary survey and we'll send that right out for you.

Wes Matthews: And we'll include that in all the notes here too. That way people have a reference, but Jay, thank you so much for taking the time, in your staff's love for your company is really awesome. You guys are providing a really great solution. I encourage everybody to take you up on that. Cause I think it's a real simple eye-opener.
It can change your company overnight. So Jay, thanks so much for the time. I really appreciate it. Keep doing what you're doing. Thank you so much.

Jay Hawreluk: Thank you. Wes has been an absolute pleasure. I've really enjoyed doing it today. You do. A great job hosting a podcast, by the way.

Wes Matthews: Thank you so much, Jay.Appreciate it.

This has been another episode of Entrepreneur Intel. Thank you for joining us. For show notes or other episodes, please visit us at entrepreneurial.com. Until next time.